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	<title>Comments on: Immediacy and&#160;Mediation</title>
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	<description>remembering our past to face our future</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Eucharist Service at Jason Clark</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Eucharist Service at Jason Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 07:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-251</guid>
		<description>[...] interviews with people from our community about what communion means to them (you can catch the videos here). We even baked our own unleavened [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interviews with people from our community about what communion means to them (you can catch the videos here). We even baked our own unleavened [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris

Where we have introduced the church calendar back into our year we have been very careful to explain what we are doing. People are sort of getting used to it and our cingregations for our Ash wednesday and Good friday services have doubled in the last year which I think points to an understanding of the importance of the Christian year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris</p>
<p>Where we have introduced the church calendar back into our year we have been very careful to explain what we are doing. People are sort of getting used to it and our cingregations for our Ash wednesday and Good friday services have doubled in the last year which I think points to an understanding of the importance of the Christian year.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris E</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Marc - I think point 3 is well made,  but I think it's easy to underestimate the level of ignorance of other church practices within charismaticism.  I agree especially with point 1 - I do think it was built on a foundation of assuming tnat biblical = spontaneous = "from the heart", which feed off the emotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc - I think point 3 is well made,  but I think it&#8217;s easy to underestimate the level of ignorance of other church practices within charismaticism.  I agree especially with point 1 - I do think it was built on a foundation of assuming tnat biblical = spontaneous = &#8220;from the heart&#8221;, which feed off the emotion.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Ooops..that last line should say 'Personally I COULDN'T see the difference, a worship song or hymn are just sung prayers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops..that last line should say &#8216;Personally I COULDN&#8217;T see the difference, a worship song or hymn are just sung prayers&#8230;</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>Chris...The abandonment of ancient practices has happened in the Charamatic Church for several reasons:

1. The ancient practices were seen as 'man made' and not 'biblical'. 

2. Tradition was a dirty word that was seen as something 'they' did which had little meaning and was just really dusty, old window dressing.

3. The traditonal church never (in my experience) explained what we were doing and why we did it.

4. and in some cases, we are better than them attitude prevailed.

In a debate I had with a freind anumber of years ago. He said he couldn't use prayers that were written by someone else as they were so impersonal although as I ppinted out he was happy to sing words to tunes that he hadn't written.

Personally I could see the difference, a worship song or hymn are just sung prayers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris&#8230;The abandonment of ancient practices has happened in the Charamatic Church for several reasons:</p>
<p>1. The ancient practices were seen as &#8216;man made&#8217; and not &#8216;biblical&#8217;. </p>
<p>2. Tradition was a dirty word that was seen as something &#8216;they&#8217; did which had little meaning and was just really dusty, old window dressing.</p>
<p>3. The traditonal church never (in my experience) explained what we were doing and why we did it.</p>
<p>4. and in some cases, we are better than them attitude prevailed.</p>
<p>In a debate I had with a freind anumber of years ago. He said he couldn&#8217;t use prayers that were written by someone else as they were so impersonal although as I ppinted out he was happy to sing words to tunes that he hadn&#8217;t written.</p>
<p>Personally I could see the difference, a worship song or hymn are just sung prayers.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris E</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Makeesha - I agree with the thrust of your argument.  However, I think it's more than just even 'abandoning the ancient practices', doing that would actually have to involve knowing what these practices are and consciously ignoring them.

I think by contrast that the primary driving force beyond much of charismatic-ism has been the elevation of spontaneity in worship and devotion above all else, closely followed by emotional state, both of which feed a rampant individualism. Anything that falls outside these markers falls by the wayside.

That is why so many charismatics are so instinctively suspicious of anything 'set' - regardless of the fact that their own worship is often very rigidly defined ("I now want to hear a spontaneous clap offering to the Lord").</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makeesha - I agree with the thrust of your argument.  However, I think it&#8217;s more than just even &#8216;abandoning the ancient practices&#8217;, doing that would actually have to involve knowing what these practices are and consciously ignoring them.</p>
<p>I think by contrast that the primary driving force beyond much of charismatic-ism has been the elevation of spontaneity in worship and devotion above all else, closely followed by emotional state, both of which feed a rampant individualism. Anything that falls outside these markers falls by the wayside.</p>
<p>That is why so many charismatics are so instinctively suspicious of anything &#8217;set&#8217; - regardless of the fact that their own worship is often very rigidly defined (&#8221;I now want to hear a spontaneous clap offering to the Lord&#8221;).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: steven hamilton</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>steven hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>then, bring out the gimp...

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>then, bring out the gimp&#8230;</p>
<p>;-)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>it's true Mak, he's a terrible slave driver, has made me his blogging gimp ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s true Mak, he&#8217;s a terrible slave driver, has made me his blogging gimp ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-149</guid>
		<description>nicely mediated :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nicely mediated :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://deepchurch.org.uk/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepchurch.org.uk%2F2007%2F06%2F07%2Fimmediacy-and-mediation%2F&amp;seed_title=Immediacy+and%26%23160%3BMediation#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepchurch.org.uk/2007/06/07/immediacy-and-mediation/#comment-148</guid>
		<description>well we did think of it over margaritas ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well we did think of it over margaritas ;)</p>
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